There are almost 14,000 practicing lawyers in Kentucky, but the state needs more.

According to the Kentucky Bar Association, the KBA says Kentucky has too many legal deserts, areas where there are not enough attorneys to meet all the legal needs of its residents.

We visited a courthouse and one of those legal deserts to find out how a judge is making it work, even though she doesn't have a full bench of lawyers.

Any family court is now in the session.

Although Brandy Rogers presiding.

I can get both.

Of you to write your name.

Do you swear or affirm your testimony and give me nothing but the truth that I. I used to joke, and maybe now it's not a joke that in 20 or 30 years, if you want an attorney in a rural area in western Kentucky, you're going to have to go to Bowling Green or Owensboro or Paducah to get an attorney.

And that's just crazy.

But I think that's definitely where we're headed.

We have several pockets of eastern and western Kentucky where there are simply not enough lawyers to cover all the different roles in the court system and provide services.

And in many of those areas, plus others, the population of lawyers is aging and the lawyers are not coming in to the area.

So those deserts can be expected to grow.

So not only is it a current problem, it's one we expect to get worse over the next 15 to 20 years without positive intervention.

We have a situation where an across the nation and in Kentucky 70% of litigants in civil cases on one side or the other do not have a lawyer.

That gets worse in family court.

It's up to around 80%.

Say you're representing yourself.

So it's a huge problem on the civil side, and it's one that civil legal aid simply cannot because of just the sheer volume and the constraints on their services, they can't meet that demand.

Continuing with the EPO and not having any hearings in time for it, I hear everything related to families.

I hear divorces, custody, transport, paternity neglect or abuse.

I do adoptions.

I do name changes, anything related to a family.

Some of my cases that I hear, I have to appoint attorneys, private attorneys, and we kind of have to go outside the circuit to find other attorneys to take those appointments because it's such a small number left in our circuit.

You don't just go to one courthouse and I do court all day like this.

That's not a thing here, maybe in several districts and counties and actually moved one docket to accommodate many of my attorneys because they were having another county overlapping mine.

And it was more convenient.

A lot of the time dockets in different courts will be set at the same time.

And so I'll be juggling like I need to be in Webster County on this afternoon, while I also have to be in Henderson County at the same time.

And, you know, every now and then I'll just be double booked, needing to be at the same place and the same time and or even three places at the same time.

Scheduling is a problem because a lot of times are the same time.

Same time.

But Judge Rogers is real flexible and if he can attend, she'd like to reschedule.

And all the other judges are as well.

So they work very well because most well, all of them have had private practices before.

And so they understand the dilemma of being scheduled in three different courts at one time.

So.

So they're very helpful, very flexible in us working around those scheduling conflicts.

We're scheduling this divorce for a five.

It's more about just being mindful of the type of practice all of us are, all they have now, and that letting them do their job, you know, not putting unrealistic expectations on these attorneys that are trying to manage multiple districts.

I've tried to maintain relationships with attorneys that show up in my circuit from outside the circuit and ask them if they'd be interested in an appointment because the court is required to ensure access to justice and access to legal counsel if someone can't afford it.

And so I may have to reschedule it.

So make sure that person can get here.

You have a duty to represent your client to the best you can.

When people don't know what forms to file, when the judge has to continue hearings because a litigant hasn't filed appropriate things or needs to be talked through procedures more thoroughly.

We would like to schedule these matters for final hearing of approximately 4 to 5 days.

It absolutely lengthens cases and makes the dockets move more slowly.

If you're behind in one court, the docket gets called in your last, you have to be at somewhere else.

That's probably the most difficult thing to work around because you could be billing.

But if you're just driving, you know, you can't transition really between clients as quickly as you could in a city.

It's just maybe more time to get things done.

KBA President Amy Cubbage says Zoom and other virtual technology are helping to expand access to legal services, but there are limitations.

She adds that some court proceedings will always require an in-person appearance.

Coming up tomorrow on Kentucky Edition, we look at efforts to attract more lawyers to rural areas.