>>> HELLO EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

PRESIDENT TRUMP DOWN PLAYS ANY THREAT TO THE CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA AS ISRAEL AND HAMAS ACCUSE EACH OTHER OF SLOUCHING THE DEAL.

BUT WHO WILL RUN THE ENCLAVE POST WAR?

I'LL ASK ONE WHOSE NAME HAS BEEN FLOATED.

PALESTINIAN POLITICIAN.

>>> THEN, REBECCA MILLER JOINS ME ON HER NEW DOCUMENTARY, TURNING THE LENS ON A TITAN OF FILM MAKING.

>>> PLUS, THE SHUTDOWN STANDOFF CONTINUES.

SENATOR MARK WARNER TELLS MICHEL MARTIN WHY DEMOCRATS WON'T BACK DOWN ON HEALTHCARE.

>>> AMANPOUR AND MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, THE FILOMENT M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

THE CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA IS JUST FOUR DAYS OLD.

ALREADY THERE, ARE SIGNS OF TENSION.

HAMAS SAYS IT'S HANDED OVER ALL THE HOSTAGE REMAINS IT CAN ACCESS WITHOUT SPECIALIST ISRAEL THOUGH IS RESTRICTING AID IN RETALIATION.

MEANWHILE ISRAEL RETURNED 120 BODIES OF PALESTINIANS HELD DURING THE WAR, SOME OF WHICH SHOW SIGNS OF ABUSE AND BEATING.

U.S.

IS ESSENTIALLY URGING KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON, PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH HAMAS?

THAT'LL BE STRAIGHTENED OUT QUICKLY.

ON THIS PROGRAM, THE EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER ASSURED ME PHASE TWO NEGOTIATIONS ARE GOING WELL.

BUT WITH HAMAS REASSERTING ITS AUTHORITY IN BRUTAL FASHION AGAINST PALESTINIANS, THERE ARE ALSO GROWING QUESTIONS AROUND THE FUTURE GOVERNANCE OF GAZA.

15 PALESTINIAN HAVE APPARENTLY BEEN APPROVED TO HELP MANAGE THE ENCLAVE.

MY NEXT GUEST IS RUMORED TO BE AMONG THEM.

A WELL-KNOWN PALESTINIAN POLITICIAN, FOREIGN PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.

IN RECENT YEARS, HE'S WORKED ON A PEACE PLAN ALONGSIDE THE JOINING ME NOW FROM THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

BY THE WAY, I WAS ON ZOOM, SPEAKING WITH THE STUDENTS IN GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY.

>> OKAY, THAT'S GOOD.

I'LL ASK YOU MORE ABOUT THAT.

BUT YOU'RE ALSO BACK FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MANY YEARS.

THIS IS NOT JUST A CHANGE OF YOUR TRAVEL PLANS, RIGHT?

IT SIGNALS A SHIFT IN YOUR POLITICAL REALITY RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, YOU ARE RIGHT.

OF COURSE, IT'S NOT THE RESULT OF THE CHANGE OF FLYING PLANS.

BUT OF COURSE, THERE IS AN UNDERSTANDING THE SITUATION NOW IS VERY DIFFICULT, AND WE ARE FACED WITH EXTREMELY, YOU KNOW, DIFFICULT SITUATIONS.

AND MAYBE THINK OF THE INCLUDING HOW TO PROCEED AND HOW TO PROCEED APPROPRIATELY.

>> OKAY, YOU'VE BEEN EXILED FOR APPROXIMATELY FOUR YEARS.

AND AS I SAID, YOUR NAME IS BEING FLOATED AS ONE OF THE 15.

MOST OF THE POINT, YOU HAD SAID IN AN INTERVIEW WITH REUTERS, IF CALLED, YOU WOULD TRY TO ANSWER THAT CALL FOR YOUR COUNTRY PEOPLE AND FOR FUTURE STATES.

SO HAVE YOU BEEN CALLED?

ARE YOU ON THE 15-MEMBER LIST FOR THE FUTURE GOVERNANCE OF GAZA?

>> WELL, I --CLEARLY, UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY I HAVEN'T BEEN CALLED.

I'M NOT AWARE MY LIST --MY NAME IS ON THE LIST.

I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE THERE IS A LIST, NOT YET.

SO WE NEED TO PROBABLY AGREE ON THE MECHANISM AND HOW TO PROCEED AND HOW TO PROCEED IN THE RIGHT WAY, AND THEN WE CAN SPEAK ABOUT NAMES.

BUT OF COURSE, YES.

TO BE IN GAZA, BUT AFTER ALL, I'M GAZAN, THIS IS OUR COUNTRY.

AND IF I'M CALLED, OF COURSE, I'LL BE AVAILABLE.

>> OKAY, LET ME ASK YOU THEN WHAT'S ON THE TABLE?

IT IF A LIST ISN'T THERE, I UNDERSTAND THIS SORT OF SECOND PHASE IS BEING TALKED ABOUT.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE ABOUT GOVERNANCE, ABOUT A STABILIZATION FORCE.

BUT YOU RECENTLY TOLD SKY KNEWS THAT THE TRUMP PLAN DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE DO NOT DESERVE TO BE PUT ON INTERNATIONAL TRUSTEESHIP OR GUARDIANSHIP, AND DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE PUT ON THE BRITISH MANDATE AGAIN.

SO TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE IN THAT 20-POINT PLAN, AND WHY TO YOU, PARTS OF IT DON'T MAKE SENSE?

>> WELL, I DIDN'T SAY THAT EXACTLY.

BUT ANY WAY, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.

I DO THINK THE PRESENT OF THE BOARD HEADED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SOMETHING THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE IN MAKING THINGS GO IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

BECAUSE THIS IS AFTER ALL A SUPERVISOR.

HAVING A BOARD OF THE ACTORS HEADED BY TONY BLAIR, WHICH THEN, YOU KNOW, HAS MANDATED TO GOVERN GAZA.

I THOUGHT THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE BECAUSE GAZA OR ANY PART CAN BE GOVERNED ONLY BY PALESTINIANS.

AND THAT DOES NOT ENGAGE THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING SUPERVISION AND HAVING SOME KIND OF FOLLOWUP BY ANYBODY INCLUDING THE BOARD OF PEACE THAT MR.

TRUMP SPOKE ABOUT.

>> OKAY.

THERE IS ALWAYS AN ISSUE WITH THE TRANSITION.

THERE HAVE BEEN IN OTHER WARS, TRANSITIONAL INTERNATIONAL BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

THERE'S THE SO-HIGH-CALLED REPRESENTATIVE STILL EXISTING IN BOSNIA.

SO WHAT IS IT THAT YOU HOW DO YOU ENVISION GETTING OVER THE CURRENT REALITY THAT THERE ISN'T A UNIFIED PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP?

THERE JUST ISN'T?

THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ELECTIONS.

WHAT HAPPENS IN YOUR VISION?

>> IN OUR WRITTEN STATEMENT, WE PROPOSE HAVING THEM ORGANICALLY LINKED TO THE AUTHORITY.

HOW WE DO THAT, WE THOUGHT IT WAS NOT IN THE PROPOSAL, BUT I WOULD ADD THAT.

WE CAN HAVE THE APPOINTMENT OF THE HEAD OF THAT BODY APPOINTED BY THE AUTHORITY TO ACHIEVE THAT THROUGH.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE CAN ACHIEVE THAT THROUGH PREPARING FOR ELECTIONS THAT WAS BACK IN GAZA TOGETHER THAT WOULD BE ALL BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S AN ELECTION THAT ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER.

JUST DESCRIBE WHAT THE PEACE PLAN LOOKS LIKE.

IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

BUT ARE THERE OTHER ASPECTS TO IT?

>> YEAH, THERE ARE THREE ISSUES ACTUALLY.

ONE IS THE WAR ON GAZA AND THE ABSOLUTE NECESSITY TO END THE WAR AND HOW WE CAN DO THAT AS WE SPOKE A LOT ABOUT THIS INCLUDING THE PROPOSAL AUTHORITY.

IN ADDITION, WE ALSO SPOKE IN THIS SHORT OR CONCISE PLAN OR PROPOSAL.

WE SPOKE OF THE NECESSITY TO HAVE AN OVERALL POLITICAL SEDIMENT.

IT'S AROUND PALESTINE LIVING INSIDE IN PEACE AND SECURITY AND, OF COURSE, TO HAVE AN EXCHANGE OF TERRITORY IN THE AMOUNT OF 4.4% OF THE WEST BANK, WHICH WAS PROPOSED BEFORE THAT.

AND LET ME SAY THE THIRD POINT, BECAUSE OF ITS IMPORTANCE TO ALL RELIGION OR BELIEVERS IN THE WORLD.

OF COURSE, IN THIS REGARD, WE PROPOSE THE OLD CITY SHOULD BE GOVERNED BY A TRUST OF COUNTRIES, MAYBE FIVE COUNTRIES THROUGH REGULATIONS ADOPTED BY THE SECURITY COUNSEL.

BUT I WANT TO SAY THIS, CHRISTIANE, THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO THAT.

EITHER YOU ACCEPT THE EXISTENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND YOU ALREADY LIVE TOGETHER.

AND THAT IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD IS THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

OR YOU WILL ENGAGE THE EXISTENCE OF THE OTHER SIDE, AND YOU CLAIM IT IS ALL YOURS, THAT'S THE RECIPE FOR THE CONTINUED BLOODSHED AND AGONY UNFORTUNATELY.

>> OKAY, YOU HAVE ON BOARD A FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER.

HE IS MORE RIGHT.

ALSO PRESHAMABLY, THE OTHER PRIME MINISTER TO THE LEFT AGREES WITH THIS BROAD PARAMETER OF THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

HOWEVER, 19 OF THE 20-POINT PLAN SPEAKS ONLY VAGUELY ABOUT STATE HOOD.

I'M JUST GOING TO READ IT.

WHILE GAZA REDEVELOPMENT ADVANCES.

WHEN THE PA REFORM PROGRAM IS FAITHFULLY CARRIED OUT, THE CONDITIONS MAY FINALLY BE IN PLACE FOR A CREDIBLE PATHWAY TO PALESTINIANS SELF-DETERMINATION AND STATE HOOD, WHICH WE RECOGNIZE AS THE AS SEPARATION OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS NOWHERE NEAR AND HASN'T YET RECOGNIZED STATE HOOD AS YOU KNOW, THEY ACTUALLY BARRED PALESTINIAN LEADERS FROM EVEN COMING TO THE U.N.

THIS TIME.

AND, YOU KNOW, THEY REJECTED THE ARAB STATES, THE EUROPEANS, OTHERS WHEN THEY ISSUED FORMAL RECOGNITION OF STATE HOOD AT THE U.N.

JUST RECENTLY.

SO HAVE THINGS CHANGED, DO YOU THINK FROM THE AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, AND ALSO FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE CURRENT ISRAELI GOVERNMENT?

>> WELL, I'M NOT SURE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE CHANGE OR NOT.

BUT THE LANGUAGE YOU READ, CHRISTIANE, IS OBVIOUSLY NOT STRONG ENOUGH.

I MEAN, WE NEED SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE CONCRETE THAT WOULD CARRY US OVER TOWARDS THE PEACEFUL SOLUTION.

HOWEVER, WE ALL KNOW THE EXISTENCE OF THIS AND THIS PRIME MINISTER IS AN IMPEDIMENT TO THAT.

IN RESPECT OF WHAT SOME MEMBERS OF THEM SAY NOW, THINGS MIGHT LOOK DIFFERENT AND MIGHT LOOK BETTER IN THE FUTURE AFTER WE HAVE AN ISRAELI ELECTION.

>> WHAT ABOUT PALESTINIAN ELECTIONS THAT HAVEN'T TAKEN PLACE FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME?

AND RIGHT NOW, YOU'VE GOT A SITUATION THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT FROM OUTSIDE, WHERE HAMAS IS FILLING THE VACUUM LEFT BY WITHDRAWING IDF, AND THEY ARE TAKING JUSTICE AND EXECUTION INTO THEIR OWN HANDS.

THAT DOESN'T LOOK GREAT AT ALL, EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THESE PEOPLE, WE UNDERSTAND THEY WERE PALESTINIANS POWERED BY ISRAEL TO FIGHT AGAINST HAMAS.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE PALESTINIAN FIGHTING NOW?

>> LISTEN, I MEAN, THIS IS AN ATTEMPT BY HAMAS TO SCARE EVERYBODY, AND IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

YOU WERE RIGHT TO SAY THE EXECUTION -- >> JUDICIAL.

>> OUTSIDE THE LAW IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

AND IT IS THE REASON OR RESPECTIVE OF THE JUSTIFICATION, LET ME SAY.

IT SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF CAUSE.

THERE SHOULD BE LAWYERS THAT WILL DEFEND THE ACCUSED AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD, AND DEFINITELY IT SHOULD CHANGE.

ACTUALLY, I SAID REPEATEDLY WHAT IS NEEDED FROM HAMAS IS NOT ONLY THE ACCEPTANCE OF GOVERNING GAZA, BUT GIVING UP ITS CONTROL OVER GAZA AND ALL OF ITS FORMS.

THAT MEANS IT'S POLITICAL AS WELL AS THE ADMINISTRATIVE IN ADDITION TO THE SECURITY, WHICH WILL LEAD US TO PUTTING THE HEAVY ARMS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE OFFICIAL AUTHORITY.

THAT COULD BE COUPLED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF TRANSFORMING HAMAS INTO A POLITICAL PARTY THAT CAN PARTICIPATE IN THE POLITICAL LIFE UNDER ISRAELI LAW.

OF COURSE, THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, PUT THE PARAMETERS FOR THIS KIND OF PARTICIPATION.

I'M SAYING THAT BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY WILL NOT DISAPPEAR.

SO WE BETTER HAVE SOME KIND OF ARRANGEMENT THAT WOULD HELP THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, AND WOULD HELP THE PEOPLE OF GAZA TO PROCEED AND TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

>> IN THE MEANTIME TO ESTABLISH LAW.

CLEARLY THERE WAS A HUGE VACUUM DURING THE WAR.

WHAT ABOUT THIS STABILIZATION FORCE?

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

WHAT ARE COUNTRIES SAYING, IF ANY, THAT THEY WILL PROVIDE TROOPS?

WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF?

>> PERSONALLY, I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED A SECURITY PRESENCE BECAUSE THIS IS BEYOND US NOW.

THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT ON HAVING THE INTERNATIONAL SECURITY FORCE.

OF COURSE, WE WOULD GO THROUGH THE SECURITY COUNSEL.

NOW, I'M NOT SURE WHICH COUNTRY WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO PROVIDE TROOPS, BUT I THINK IT'S I THINK THERE ARE ENOUGH COUNTRIES THAT MIGHT BE READY TO DO THAT INCLUDING SOME ARAB COMPANIES IN ADDITION TO SOME EUROPEANS AND ASIAN COUNTRIES THAT EXPRESS THIS KIND OF POSITION.

>> AND THE OTHER ISSUE IS, OF COURSE, PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR UNIFYING OR, YOU KNOW, POPULAR PALESTINIAN LEADERS.

AS I SAID, GOD KNOWS THERE AREN'T ANY RIGHT NOW.

POLLS ARE ABSOLUTELY CATASTROPHIC FOR PEOPLE LIKE THE HEAD OF THE PA.

OBVIOUSLY FOR HAMAS, PEOPLE IN GAZA WERE DESPERATE WHEN THEY HEARD THE NEWS OF A CEASE-FIRE.

WE NEED TO GET RID OF HAMAS AS WELL, WHICH HAS BROUGHT THIS ALL UPON US AS WELL.

SO THE NAME HAS BEEN FLOATED QUITE A LOT.

HIS NAME WAS ON THE LIST THAT HAMAS PRESENTED.

BUT HE'S NEVER BEEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S NEVER BEEN ACCEPTED BY ISRAEL.

THEY ACCUSE HIM OF THE MURDER OF SEVERAL PEOPLE OF PLOTTING THAT.

HE'S GOT, I THINK FIVE CONSECUTIVE LIFE SENTENCES.

IN ANY EVENT, WOULD YOU JOIN CALLS FOR HIS RELEASE?

AND DO YOU THINK HE WOULD BE A UNIFYING FIGURE, GIVEN HIS HIGH LEVELS OF POPULARITY?

>> OF COURSE, I WOULD JOIN THE CALL TO LISTEN AND, OF COURSE, IT'S OUTRAGEOUS THE GOVERNMENT DID NOT ACCEPT THE RELEASE.

DESPITE THE REQUEST MADE BY HAMAS AND THIS REGARD.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, HE COULD BE A UNIFYING FORCE FOR THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

BUT HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE OTHERS AS WELL, AND WE CAN PROCEED.

>> DO YOU THINK NOT LETTING HIM GO, YOU KNOW, NOT THE FIRST TIME THERE'S BEEN PETITIONS TO HAVE HIM RELEASED.

DO YOU THINK IT'S BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU SAID THAT HE IS A UNIFYING FORCE?

HE ALSO BELIEVES IN THE TWO- STATE SOLUTION?

HE IS ALSO ANTI-HAMAS?

ALL THE THINGS THAT MOST PALESTINIANS AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY ARE BEHIND.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S WHY HE'S NOT?

WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S NOT BEING RELEASED?

GIVEN THAT OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED -- >> YEAH, OKAY.

THIS IS THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

YES, YES, BUT THIS IS THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT AND THE PRIME MINISTER IN PARTICULAR.

IT DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE A PALESTINIAN STATE.

IT DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE PALESTINIAN INDEPENDENCE.

HE WANTS TO ENSURE THE CONTINUED AGONY AND THE CONTINUED BLOODSHED AND THE CONTINUED ABSENCE OF ANY POLITICAL SOLUTION.

BUT OF COURSE, IT'S OUR JOB TO DO THE OPPOSITE.

>> OKAY, FINAL QUESTION.

ARE YOU HOPEFUL?

>> YES, I AM HOPEFUL.

I THINK WE CANNOT AFFORD NOT TO BE HOPEFUL.

YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, WE SHOULD ALSO ATTEND TO THINGS AND OBSERVE CAREFULLY HOW THINGS WILL DEVELOP, THEN DRAW THE CONCLUSION.

BUT IN GENERAL, AS I SAID, WE CAN'T AFFORD NOT TO BE HELPFUL.

>> OKAY, FIRST TIME BACK FOR I THINK FOUR YEARS, AND YOU SOUND HOPEFUL.

OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF CHALLENGES, INCLUDING IN THE WEST BANK WHERE YOU ARE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> OF COURSE, WE CONTINUE TO REQUEST INTERVIEWS WITH ISRAELI GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS TO ALSO COME AND TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE.

NOW FOR SOME REAL CULTURAL HEAVYWEIGHT.

JUST THINK OF MASTERPIECES.

HE'S CONSIDERED BY MANY TO BE AMERICA'S GREATEST LIVING FILM DIRECTOR.

AS THE SUBJECT OF A NEW APPLE TV DOCUMENTARY SERIES THAT DIVES DEEP INTO HIS LIFE AND WORK.

HERE IS A CLIP.

>> WHERE ARE WE GOING?

WHAT STORIES DO YOU WANT TO TELL?

I COULD EXPRESS MYSELF WITH PICTURES.

BUT I HAVE TO FIND MY OWN WAY.

>> AND SERIES DIRECTOR, REBECCA MILLER, JOINS ME NOW FROM NEW YORK.

WERE YOU NERVOUS, ACTUALLY TURNING YOUR OWN CAMERA AS A DIRECTOR ONTO THE LEGEND HIMSELF?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A HEALTHY CAPACITY FOR DENIAL, I THINK.

SO I REALLY JUST, I WAS REALLY JUST TRYING TO ASK THE QUESTIONS, LISTEN TO THE ANSWERS, ASK THE NEXT QUESTION.

I TRIED TO EMPTY MY MIND AND REALLY JUST LISTEN.

>> SO WHAT WAS IT?

HOW DID IT COME ABOUT?

WHY DID YOU DECIDE THIS WAS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, YOUR FOCUS ON THIS PERSON?

>> I WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH MY PRODUCING PARTNER.

I WAS SAYING I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE ANOTHER DOCUMENTARY.

IMMEDIATELY MARTIN SCORSESE POPPED INTO MY HEAD.

IT WAS AN UNCONSCIOUS THING.

AT THE TIME, I HAD A FEELING HIS SPIRITUAL LIFE IS REALLY SEWN INTO HIS FILMS.

I WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTED TO EXPLORE THAT, WHICH IS SOMETHING I DIDN'T FEEL I HAD SEEN REALLY EXPLORED YET, COMPLETELY.

THAT WAS SORT OF MY WAY IN.

THEN I CALLED MARTY'S DOC PRODUCER, MARGARET BRODY.

I SAID IF NOBODY ELSE IS DOING A BIG FILM, I'D LOVE TO DO IT.

THAT'S REALLY HOW IT STARTED.

IT STARTED AS A FILM PROJECT, THEN BECAME A SERIES.

>> I'M GOING TO LET YOU GET THAT EAR PIECE INTO YOUR EAR PROPERLY.

>> IN IT GOES.

I HAVE ONE OF THOSE EARS THAT DOESN'T LIKE IT.

YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY FULL DISCLOSURE, YOUR HUSBAND ALSO A GREAT ACTOR, DANIEL DAY LEWIS, HAS BEEN IN SEVERAL OF MARTIN'S FILMS.

DID YOU CONSULT WITH HIM?

YOU EVEN INTERVIEWED HIM IN THIS SERIES.

IT'S INTERESTING.

>> WELL, I MET MARTY ON THE SET OF GANGS OF NEW YORK.

THAT'S HOW I MET HIM.

I REMEMBER BEING STRUCK BY HOW VIVID AND FULL OF LIFE AND HOW NERVOUS HE WAS.

HE WAS ABOUT TO SHOOT ONE OF THE BIG BATTLE SCENES.

I WAS LIKE MY GOD, THE MAN WHO MADE SO MANY MASTERPIECES AND HE IS STILL NERVOUS.

I WAS ABOUT TO MAKE PERSONAL VELOCITY, WHICH IS A FILM WITH A LOT OF VOICEOVER IN IT AND I KNEW THAT.

I SAID CAN YOU SUGGEST ANY FILMS WITH VOICE OVER, APART FROM HIS OWN?

HE SUGGESTED A FEW GREAT FILMS.

SO I WATCHED THOSE FILMS, I USED A LOT OF WHAT THEY TAUGHT ME AND I MADE THE FILM AND SHOWED IT TO THEM.

I SAID IF YOU HAVE ANY VOTES, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THEM.

HE GAVE ME A THOUGHT.

THEN I DID THAT WITH OTHER FILMS OF MINE.

SO BY THE TIME I CALLED MARGARET, I WAS, FILMS PRETTY WELL.

I KNEW HIM SOCIALLY, ALTHOUGH NOT DEEPLY.

>> A BIT OF A MENTOR IT SOUNDS?

>> I GUESS SO IN A SENSE, ALTHOUGH IT WOULD BE JUST ON THOSE OCCASIONS.

BUT OF COURSE, IT WAS A HUGELY IMPORTANT THING FOR ME THAT HE WATCH THE FILMS.

ANY WAY, THANK GOD HE DID BECAUSE HERE WE ARE.

>> WE'VE GOT A FEW CLIPS I'M GOING TO PLAY OR AT LEAST ONE IN A MOMENT.

BUT FIRST, I WANT TO PICK UP ON WHAT YOU SAID.

HIS SPIRITUAL JOURNEY.

NOT SO MANY PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, KNOW.

I WAS REALLY QUITE STRUCK BY ONE OF THE FIRST EPISODES WHERE HE REALLY GOES INTO HIS CHILDHOOD, HIS UPBRINGING, HOW HE EVEN WENT INTO THE CATHOLIC WHERE HE THOUGHT HE WOULD BE A PRIEST.

I FOUND THAT REALLY INTERESTING.

WHAT ABOUT THOSE EARLY YEARS IN THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HIM THAT REALLY STUCK WITH YOU?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT WELL HOW DOES THAT SORT OF FASCINATION WITH VIOLENCE IN SOME OF THE FILMS?

HOW DO THOSE THINGS COEXIST?

I THOUGHT AT THAT TIME, I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY ABOUT HIS INTEREST IN THE CENTER AND FOCUSING ON THOSE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY HEROIC, BUT WHO ARE THE HEROES OF THE STORY AS HE SAYS IN THE FILM.

THAT WAS MY WAY INTO THIS BODY OF WORK.

IT WAS ONLY THE BEGINNING BECAUSE THEN CAME THE AVALANCHE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT I GOT LATER.

>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

I HAVEN'T REALLY FOCUSED ON IT EITHER, HOW MUCH HIS PARENTS PLAY A HUGE ROLE IN HIS LIFE AND HIS UPBRINGING.

EVEN IN HIS FILMS.

I REMEMBER INTERVIEWING JODY FOSTER WHO TALKED ABOUT HOW SCORSESE'S MOTHER WAS ON SET REGULARLY, TALKING IN HIS SHIRT, PATTING HIS BUTT, THOSE WERE HER WORDS TO ME.

YOU HAVE A CLIP ABOUT HIS MOTHER IN THE FILM.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO PLAY THIS.

>> FIRST PERSON, THEY WILL BE YOUR PARENTS?

>> HE MADE ME COOK SPAGHETTI AT 4:30 IN THE MORNING.

I WAS IN THE MEAN STREETS.

HE MADE ME DO THAT SCENE 22 TIMES, AND I HAD TO GO TO WORK IN THE MORNING.

IT WAS 2:00 IN THE MORNING, AND I WAS STILL DOING THAT SCENE.

OH, AND I SAID TO HIM, I HAD IT, MARTY.

I HAVE TO GO TO WORK IN THE MORNING.

HE SAID GO IN THAT CORNER AND DON'T COME OUT UNTIL I CALL YOU.

>> LET ME TELL YOU, SHE HAD SUCH A COMPOSURE IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA.

THE CAMERA DIDN'T SEEM TO EXIST.

>> TAKE A FEW SPOONFULS OF TOMATO, THROW THEM IN HERE BECAUSE THE MEATBALLS REMAIN VERY SOFT.

UNLIKE SOME OF THE MEATBALLS YOU EAT SOMETIMES.

YOU EAT A MEATBALL AND IT'S AS HARD AS CAN BE.

>> THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS A COMEDY MOVIE.

BUT WHY WAS HIS MOTHER ALWAYS THERE?

WHY DID HE KEEP TURNING TO HER AS A CHARACTER IN HIS FILM?

TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT TO HIM.

YOU KNOW, CLEARLY IN THE FILM, YOU SEE THE RELATIONSHIP AND YOU SEE HOW CLOSE THEY WERE.

BECAUSE HE WAS VERY SICK, I THINK, AS A CHILD, HE TALKS ABOUT HAVING TO BE TAKEN CARE OF ALL THE TIME.

THE KIND OF INTIMACY AND CLOSENESS OF THE CHILD WHO IS OFTEN SICK, IN HIS CASE, WITH ASTHMA.

BUT HIS MOTHER HAD, I THINK, YOU CAN SEE IN THE FILM, ALMOST A PERSONALITY OF AN ARTIST.

SHE'S AN OUTSIDE CHARACTER.

SHE IS TREMENDOUSLY FUNNY.

AND QUICK WITTED, REALLY BRILLIANT WOMAN.

>> YOU KNOW, IT REMINDS ME ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOU INTERVIEW IS SPIKE LEE.

THE LITTLE CLIP THAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR, HE SAYS THANK GOD FOR ASPER, WHICH IS WHAT MADE MARTY THE FILM MAKER, THE DIRECTOR THAT HE IS.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, ASTHMA REALLY PREVENTED HIM FROM GOING OUTSIDE BEING AROUND OTHER KIDS.

ALSO, HE TALKS ABOUT LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW AND WATCHING THE KIDS PLAY OUTSIDE.

THAT'S WHERE HE SAYS THAT'S WHERE I GOT TO LOVE HIGH SHOTS SO MUCH.

THEN WE HAVE A SERIES OF THE HIGH SHOTS THAT IT REALLY INFORMED HOW HE LIKED TO SHOOT FILMS.

BUT ALSO IN THE SUMMERS, IT WAS SO HOT IN NEW YORK AND SO STIFLING.

THEY COULDN'T AFFORD AIR- CONDITIONING.

TO HIS FATHER WOULD BRING HIM FROM ONE AIR-CONDITIONED MOVIE THEATER TO ANOTHER IN ORDER TO JUST LET HIM BREATHE.

SO HE WAS LITERALLY ONLY ABLE TO BREATHE INSIDE MOVIE THEATERS.

>> I THINK THAT'S REALLY EXTRAORDINARY.

AGAIN, SOMETHING I CERTAINLY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT, AND ALSO ABOUT HOW HE SAYS TO YOU AND HE SORT OF RECOUNTS HOW HIS FATHER HAD A MASSIVE FIGHT WITH THE LANDLORD WHEN THEY WERE LIVING IN CORONA QUEENS.

BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE SUBURBS.

THEN HE WAS KICKED OUT.

THEY BASICALLY DECIDED HE HAD TO LEAVE THAT AREA.

THE SHAME OF IT, GOING TO WHAT WAS DESCRIBED AS LITTLE ITALY, I GUESS IN MANHATTAN FORMATIVE TO MARTY SCORSESE.

I GUESS CEMENTED HIS MAYBE OUTSIDER PERSPECTIVE LOOKING IN AND THE IDEA AS YOU SAY, SINNERS AND LOOKING IN AT THAT ASPECT, THE DARK SIDE OF HUMANITY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, PAUL SCHRADER AT A CERTAIN POINT, I SAID WHY DID MARTY IDENTIFY SO STRONGLY WITH THAT SCRIPT OF "TAXI DRIVER?

HE SAID IT IS ALMOST AS IF I HAD WRITTEN IT MYSELF.

I ASKED PAUL IF HE KNEW WHY.

HE SAID MARTY RESPONDED TO A PHRASE IN THE SCRIPT THAT TRAVIS BICKELL IS LOOKING INSIDE BETSY, A WOLF STARING AT CAMPFIRES IN THE DISTANCE, THAT SENSE OF ANIMAL THAT'S LEFT OUT, LEFT FAR AWAY.

BUT IT ALSO MAKES YOU THINK OF A CHILD LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW, DOWN AT OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE BELOW.

SO THERE IS KIND OF A THEME, AN OUTSIDER THEME, I THINK, IN THE FILM.

>> AND LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT THE FILM'S MEAN STREET, "TAXI "KILLERS OF THE FLOWER MOON.

HOW MUCH OF HIS LIFE DO YOU SEE PLAYING INTO THE STORY TELLING?

>> CAN YOU REPEAT THE BEGINNING OF THAT?

>> YES, I'M REALLY SORRY FOR THE TROUBLE YOU'RE HAVING.

YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M GOING TO GO TO A CLIP HERE.

I'M GOING TO GO TO A CLIP, AND I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A FEW SECONDS TO POSITION IT BETTER.

HERE'S A CLIP FROM THE DOCUMENTARY, OKAY?

>> IT'S EXPENSIVE.

TRUST IN BELONGING WITH EACH OTHER AS A UNIT.

I COME FROM A TIME WHERE THE ACTORS IN THE INDUSTRY WOULD TAKE THE FILM AWAY FROM YOU.

AND SO THAT'S ONE THING AND THAT BECAME AN ISSUE WITH DE NIRO IN THE SENSE WE FOUND A TRUST.

THE BOTTOM LINE, HE WOULDN'T DO THAT.

I REALLY TRUSTED THAT AND IT CAME TRUE.

SO IT WAS SAFE TO EXPERIMENT.

>> WE JUST HEARD THAT CLIP ABOUT SCORSESE TALKING ABOUT HIS COLLABORATION WITH ROBERT DE NIRO.

I'M CONFUSED NOW.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> IT'S OKAY.

>> WHAT IS IT ABOUT THEIR COLLABORATION YOU THINK WAS SO --I MEAN REALLY, IT'S A BODY OF WORK THESE TWO HAVE PUT OUT THERE?

>> YOU COULD SAY THEY EVEN CREATED EACH OTHER IN A WAY.

I MEAN, IT'S EXTRAORDINARY BECAUSE DE NIRO WAS A BOY WHO WAS COMPELLED TO VISIT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND REALLY BECOME MAKE IT HIS KIND OF HOME, WHERE HE STOOD, AS HE SAYS, THE EXPRESSION HE USED INSTEAD OF HANGING OUT.

AS A 16, 17-YEAR-OLD BOY AND A NEW MARTY TO SAY HI TO AND JUST WAVE TO.

AND THEN THEY MET AGAIN THROUGH JAY COX, AND THE STORY OF, YOU KNOW, JAY INTRODUCING THEM AT A PARTY.

DE NIRO WATCHING MARTY, WHO IS SORT OF HOLDING FORTH, TALKING, LAUGHING, AND JUST WATCHING.

THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY JOURNEY.

>> YOU ALSO DON'T SHY AWAY FROM HIS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DARK IN HIS ACTUAL PERSON.

YOU KNOW, HE CARRIED WEAPONS OCCASIONALLY.

HE HAD A REALLY SEVERE DRUG ADDICTIONS AND DRUG USE, FAILED RELATIONSHIPS, EMOTIONAL VOLATILITY.

HE WAS MARRIED FIVE TIMES.

YOU TALKED TO ONE OF HIS EX- WIFE, DESCRIBING HIM AS A SINNER, SAYING HE WAS BOTH ESSENTIALLY.

DO YOU FEEL THE SAME?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, SHE TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIM BEING A SAINT SINNER IN THE SENSE, SOMEBODY WHO IS, YOU KNOW, FASCINATED BY GOOD AND EVIL.

WHAT ARE PEOPLE REALLY THINKING ABOUT THE BIG QUESTIONS, AS SHE SAYS, AS JESUS ASKED THE QUESTION AND GOD ASKED THE QUESTION.

SO HE'S A HUMAN BEING.

SO YOU KNOW, HE'S A HUMAN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M SO IMPRESSED BY HIM, HE REALLY THREW HIMSELF INTO HIS LIFE, AS HE DID HIS WORK.

HE WASN'T SORT OF SPARING OF HIMSELF.

HE REALLY WANTED TO EXPERIENCE LIFE IN THE FULLEST.

TO SOME DEGREE, THAT MEANT SOMETIMES EXPERIENCING THE DARK SIDE OF THINGS, SO HE COULD HONESTLY PORTRAY IT.

>> AND I WAS ALSO INTERESTED BECAUSE MOST OF HIS FRIENDS COLLABORATORS ARE MEN.

YOU KNOW, DE NIRO, LEONARDO CAP OWE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, HE WOULD HAVE SOME OF THE CLOSEST COLLABORATION, THE EDITORS WHO HE MET AT NYU HAS BEEN WITH HIM SINCE THEN.

HIS MOTHER OBVIOUSLY IS A MASSIVE PRESENCE IN HIS LIFE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIPS?

>> THE WAY HE WORKS WITH THESE INTENSE COLLABORATORS WHO ARE WOMEN.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE HE SURROUNDS HIM WITH HIS LIFE, INCLUDING THELMA ARE WOMEN.

A LOT OF THE GREATEST PERFORMANCES IN HIS FILMS ARE ACTUALLY BY WOMEN.

IT'S JUST THE WORLD HE'S EXPLORING ARE OFTEN DOMINATED BY MEN.

YOU KNOW, ALICE DOESN'T LIVE HERE ANYMORE, WHICH IS REALLY ABOUT A WOMAN, REDEFINING, CAPTURING HER OWN, YOU KNOW, AGENCY FOR HER OWN DESTINY.

>> I WANT TO JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE MOMENT.

BEFORE YOU MADE THIS DOCUMENTARY, YOU MADE, YOU KNOW, A HUGELY WELL REVIEWED ONE ABOUT YOUR OWN FATHER, THE GREAT AMERICAN PLAYWRIGHT, ARTHUR MILLER.

IT'S CALLED ARTHUR MILLER WRITER.

OF COURSE, ONE OF HIS BEST KNOWN WORK IS THE CRUCIAL DEFINITIVE TAKE OF THE 1950s AMERICA.

NOW, THERE'S SORT OF A RESURGENCE OF WHAT SOME SAY IS AN ATTEMPT TO SHAPE WHAT THEY ALL THE REST OF IT, HOW DO YOU SORT OF THINK ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING HE SAYS IN THE DOCUMENTARY.

HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN ACTIVITIES COMMITTEE.

HE SAYS THEY REALLY DID THINK THEY WERE READY TO TAKE OVER THE COUNTRY.

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

I'M HOPEFUL IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN, BUT I DO THINK IT IS A REAL RISK AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT SEEMS TO LURK UNDER THE SURFACE.

WE HAVE TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT IT.

HE WOULD BE SEEING A LOT OF THE SAME THINGS HAPPENING AGAIN.

I THINK HE WOULD BE APPALLED ACTUALLY.

>> NOW, LET'S JUST MOVE FORWARD IN GENERATIONS.

YOUR SON HAS JUST HAD HIS DIRECTING DEBUT.

THERE'S BEEN SOME SCREENINGS HERE.

LOOK AT THAT PROUD SMILE.

YOUR HUSBAND, HIS FATHER, WHAT IS THAT LIKE FOR BOTH OF YOU?

IT'S YOUR SON'S FIRST FEATURED FILM DEBUT.

I THINK YOUR HUSBAND HAS COME OUT OF SOME SORT OF SEMI- RETIREMENT TO DO THIS?

AND YOU GOT THIS COMING OUT.

IT'S A LOT OF CREATIVITY GOING ON UNDER ONE ROOF?

>> IT'S A CRAZY TIME.

THEY'RE IN ENGLAND RIGHT NOW, ON THEIR WAY TO ROME.

I'M HERE IN NEW YORK.

BUT I WAS IN CALIFORNIA.

IT'S MADNESS.

BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THESE PROJECTS, THEY TAKE YEARS AND YEARS, AND THEN YOU CAN'T CONTROL WHEN THEY BLOSSOM.

I FEEL VERY, VERY LUCKY AND SO PROUD OF RONAN AND DANIEL.

>> JUST ONE LAST QUESTION THEN.

WHAT --DID YOUR OPINION, YOU CALLED HIM, I THINK THE ICON OF AMERICAN CULTURE, MARTIN SCORSESE.

DID YOUR OPINION OF HIM EVOLVE THROUGHOUT THE FILMING?

>> AS MUCH AS I ADMIRED HIM AND AS MUCH AS I WAS EXCITED, HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON I WANTED TO WORK ON.

THE TITANIC NATURE OF HIS OUTPUT.

THE LEVEL OF GREAT FILMS.

I MEAN IT'S ASTONISHING.

IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THIS WENT FROM BEING A FEATURED FILM TO BEING A FIVE-HOUR DOCUMENTARY BECAUSE I COULD NOT CONTAIN THE BODY OF WORK.

I MEAN, ALSO HIS SELF-HONESTY ABOUT HIMSELF WAS TREMENDOUS.

FINALLY, LIKE REALLY, THE WAY IN WHICH A YOUNG PERSON, HE MADE A FILM THAT IS CALLED NOT JUST YOU, MURRAY, MEANT MUCH OF WHICH IS REFLECTED IN GOOD FELLAS, IN TERMS OF A FORMAL ATTITUDE TOWARDS CUTTING AND VOICEOVER.

HE WAS SO DEVELOPED AT A YOUNG AGE.

YET HE IS STILL EVOLVING, STILL HUNGRY.

BUT YEAH, I GUESS IT'S REALLY THAT SENSE OF THE NATURE OF WHAT HE HAD DONE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, REBECCA BOTH OF US BY THE EAR PIECE.

BUT A GREAT SERIES.

WE MADE IT.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT.

>>> NOW, IN THE UNITED STATES, THE GOVERNMENT REMAINS SHUT DOWN FOR ITS THIRD CONSECUTIVE WEEK.

WHY?

THEY ARE STILL AT AN IMPASSE OVER A KEY FUNDING BILL.

TODAY IT FAILED TO ADVANCE TO THE SENATE FOR THE TENTH TIME AND THE STALEMATE IS ALREADY HAVING REVERBERATIONS ON THE ECONOMY AND THE PAYROLL OF FEDERAL WORKERS.

TEMPORARILY BLOCKED FROM LAYING OFF THOUSANDS OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.

THE JUDGE CALLED IT POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.

DEMOCRATIC SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA, MARK WARNER, JOINS MICHEL MARTIN NOW TO DISCUSS HOW MASS LAYOFFS ARE IMPACTING HIS STATE.

AND ABOUT HIS FEARS OF A LOOMING HEALTHCARE CRISIS.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE, SENATOR MARK WARNER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WELL, OBVIOUSLY WE CALLED YOU.

YOU, THIS IS WHERE WE ARE INTO THE THIRD WEEK OF THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN BY NOW.

THE PRESIDENT IS THREATENING TO LAYOFF FEDERAL WORKERS.

IT APPEARS THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME ARRANGEMENT TO PAY MILITARY PERSONNEL AT LEAST.

VIRGINIA IS AFFECTED BY THIS.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF THE WORK FORCE, OUR FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND THE SECOND LARGEST NUMBER OF THE MILITARY PERSONNEL OF ANY STATE IN THE COUNTRY AFTER CALIFORNIA.

SO FIRST THING I WANTED TO ASK YOU, WHAT ARE YOUR CONSTITUENTS TELLING YOU ABOUT THIS?

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM THEM?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I'M GLAD THE MILITARY IS GETTING PAID.

BUT REMARKABLY, AT LEAST AT THIS STAGE OF THIS PROCESS, I'M HEARING FROM FEDERAL WORKERS PRETTY CONSISTENTLY THAT THEY FEEL THEY HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED BY TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

I FEEL THE DIRECTOR WHO SEEMS TO BE TRUMP GRIM REAPER.

HE'S REALLY COMING AFTER FEDERAL WORKERS.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE PRESIDENT HAS NO GREATER ABILITY DURING THE SHUTDOWN TO FIRE WORKERS.

AND THEN IN TRADITIONAL TIMES.

THEY FEEL VERY MUCH VICTIMIZED.

THEY WANTED TO PUSH BACK.

WE ALSO BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF THAT CLIFF THAT IS NOT GOING TO COME AT THE END OF THE YEAR, THAT WILL LITERALLY COME ON NOVEMBER 1 FOR PEOPLE WHERE THEY GET THEIR INCREASED HEALTHCARE COSTS AND THEY WILL HAVE TO BUY IN THE MARKETPLACE.

PUT ON THAT, ON TOP OF THE FACT, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS ONLY SITTING DOWN WITH THE LEADERSHIP ONE TIME ON THE WHOLE ISSUE.

I KNOW THEY'VE BEEN WORKING AROUND THE WORLD.

SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL, COMMENDING THEM ON THAT.

THE IDEA IS NOT TAKING THIS SHUTDOWN SERIOUSLY AND SITTING DOWN, TRYING TO WORK THIS OUT.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP.

WE COULD ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THE HEALTHCARE CRISIS, GET THE WORK FORCE BACK IN.

FRANKLY TOWARDS THE END OF THE DAY, THE PRESIDENT WILL CONTINUE TO RATCHET UP THREATS.

THE FEDERAL WORK FORCE MORE ANGRY AND MORE FRUSTRATED.

>> DO YOU THINK THIS SENDS -- IT CREATES A WEDGE ACTUALLY BETWEEN CIVILIANS AND MILITARY PERSONNEL?

MILITARY PERSONNEL GETTING PAID AND CIVILIANS ARE NOT?

>> I HOPE NOT.

THEY WOULD RECOGNIZE ALL THESE FEDERAL WORKERS TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SAFETY OF OUR COUNTRY, WHETHER IT IS IN PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE OR FOR THAT MATTER, INSPECTING THE MILK AND THE FOOD THAT WE DRINK OR EAT.

THAT PROTECTS AMERICANS AS WELL.

HAVING THOSE FOLKS NOT PAY ISN'T FAIR OR RIGHT.

WE HAVE SAID FOR SOME TIME, THIS IS NOT, THIS IS A PREVENTABLE CRISIS.

WE KNEW THE HEALTHCARE COSTS WERE GOING UP.

WE'VE GOT CLINICS CLOSING ALREADY IN MY STATE BECAUSE OF THIS FEAR AND THIS HEALTHCARE CLIFF.

LET'S DO THESE TOGETHER.

THERE IS A LACK OF TRUST BECAUSE SO FAR, EVEN WHEN WE REACH AGREEMENT WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION, WE'VE SEEN THEM COME IN AFTER THE FACT.

CHOOSE WHICH PROGRAM TO FUND OR NOT TO FUND.

THAT IS NOT THE WAY THE LAW OPERATES.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE OF THIS.

PEOPLE AREN'T FOLLOWING THIS AS CLOSELY AS YOU ARE AND CERTAINLY AS PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSELY CONNECTED TO THE FEDERAL WORK FORCE ARE.

THE IMMEDIATE ISSUE, THE REPUBLICANS ARGUE THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT PASSING WHAT THEY CALL A CLEAN CONTINUING RESOLUTION, WHICH KEEPS FUNDING AT THE SAME LEVELS AS THE PREVIOUS BUDGET.

THE DEMOCRATS SAY THE ISSUE HERE IS THE EXPIRATION OF THESE SUBSIDIES FOR PEOPLE WHO BUY CARE MARKETPLACE.

THE COST OF THE BUYER IS GOING TO INCREASE, AND THAT AS YOU POINTED OUT, THE TIMELINE IS COMING UP FOR THESE INSURANCE PREMIUMS TO BE PRICED OUT.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEIR BUDGET.

IN ESSENCE, BOTH SIDES -- GO AHEAD.

THE IDEA THIS IS A NORMAL CR.

JUST ISN'T THE CASE.

HISTORICALLY, AND WE HAVE PASSED A BUNCH OF THESE.

DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS WORK OUT THE DEAL AND THEN SAY THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE A TIME OUT TO FINISH THEM.

NONE OF THAT TOOK PLACE.

USUALLY IT INVOLVES THE WHITE HOUSE AS WELL.

THE REPUBLICANS FELT LIKE WE DON'T NEED DEMOCRATS AT ALL, SO WE'RE GOING TO BOX THEM OUT NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST WHEN WE'VE GOTTEN CLOSE TO THESE KINDS OF SHUTDOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH IS AN AWFUL OPTION.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED HE USED THE SPEAKERSHIP VERY MUCH TO HIS ADVANTAGE, GIVING BIDEN TO THE TABLE.

TRUMP HAD ONE MEETING AND THEN KIND OF BLEW IT OFF.

AND THE IMMEDIACY OF THE HEALTHCARE BITE IS SUCH THAT PEOPLE ARE ALREADY GETTING THESE NOTICES.

MY FEAR IS THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE COST GOING UP.

THEY'RE AFRAID AS AMERICANS SEE THESE NOTICES COMING OUT, WHICH WILL HAPPEN MORE IN LATE OCTOBER THAN EARLY OCTOBER.

IT'S NOT JUST THE 24 MILLION AMERICANS WHO BUY THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE THROUGH THESE MARKETPLACES.

BUT IF WE DRIVE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS OUT OF THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND DRIVE THEM ALL BACK INTO THE EMERGENCY ROOM, THAT'S GOING TO COLLAPSE THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

EVERYBODY'S HEALTHCARE RATES ARE GOING TO GO UP.

WE WANT TO AVOID THAT, WE CAN AVOID THAT, BUT YOU NEED TO GET IN THE ROOM TO TALK ABOUT THESE I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS REASONABLE TO SAY LET'S SIT DOWN AND FRANKLY AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME, THE ONE THING WE DO KNOW, THEY HAVE NO SAY IN THIS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT WILL BE DECIDED ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE BY DONALD TRUMP.

SO WE NEED THE PRESIDENT'S ENGAGEMENT.

WE NEED TO SIT DOWN.

REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN WORK THIS OUT.

LET'S SEE THOSE MAKE A DEAL SKILLS WORK BACK HERE AT HOME AND AVOID THIS HEALTHCARE CRISIS AND GET FEDERAL WORKERS.

>> YOU LAID OUT THE SUBSTANCE OF THE ARGUMENT?

YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE REPUBLICANS BELIEVE THE POLITICS ARE ON THEIR SIDE IN THIS, THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO RISK PEOPLE NEITHER BEING UNABLE TO AFFORD THEM ALTOGETHER, ETC., WHY ARE THEY WRONG?

>> WELL, ALL THE DATA I'VE SEEN SO FAR INDICATES AMERICANS DON'T WANT THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM TO EXPLODE.

NOW AGAIN, WHO KNOWS IN A FEW WEEKS.

BUT I THINK IN A FEW WEEKS, THE CIRCUMSTANCE WILL GET WORSE FOR THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE PEOPLE, THESE PRICE INCREASES, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET THE LETTERS AND GO HOLY CRAP.

THEY WENT FROM $800 A MONTH, $2,100 A MONTH, WHICH IN ROANOKE IN MY STATE WOULD RECEIVE, IF THEY MAKE, YOU KNOW, ROUGHLY $80,000 A YEAR.

THAT'S A DRAMATIC INCREASE.

WOULD APPROVE FOR THE PRESIDENT AND OTHER THAN THE FACT IT'S GOING TO MAKE MORE PEOPLE SAY HEY, WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS DRAMATIC INCREASE.

>> THE ARGUMENT THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE MAKING THAT VOTING FOR THE CONTINUING RESOLUTION IS A WAY TO BUY TIME TO HAVE THOSE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS.

WHY ARE THEY WRONG?

>> AND WE KNEW THIS CLIFF WAS COMING AND THERE WAS NO ENGAGEMENT.

WE ARE OPERATING RIGHT NOW IT EXPIRED AT THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR.

PLENTY OF TIME TO NEGOTIATE THIS.

I FEEL THERE IS THIS SENSE THAT THE PRESIDENT FEELS SO EMBOLDEN THAT HE BASICALLY CAN BLOW OFF CONGRESS IN ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN SURPRISED AT MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES HAVEN'T WRITTEN, HAVEN'T RISEN UP TO SAY HEY, WE NEED TO HAVE A SAY ON IT THIS AS WELL.

BUT FRANKLY THERE IS NOT MUCH OF A REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THERE IS A TRUMP PARTY.

THERE IS A REAL INTEREST IN NEGOTIATING.

WHY DIDN'T IT HAPPEN BEFORE SEPTEMBER 30?

AND SO TAKING A PROMISE FROM SOMEBODY WHO HASN'T KEPT IT SO FAR, WHEN THEY WERE IN PLACE AND THEY TOOK WHICH PLACE TO FUND, HOW YOU GO INTO THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, WHERE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, FOOL ME ONCE, IT'S MY FAULT.

FOOL ME TWICE, YOU KNOW, I'M A FOOL.

AND WE'VE SEEN THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY FROM THIS AND FROM THIS PRESIDENT IN TERMS OF CUTTING BACK ON PROGRAMS THAT WERE AGREED ON.

THERE IS NOT A LOT OF TRUST AS WE KNOW.

LET'S MAKE THIS DEAL.

THE DETAILS ON HOW YOU WOULD EXTEND THE ACA SUBSIDIES WILL TAKE SOME TIME.

BUT I THINK YOU COULD SKIP TO A DEAL TO GET THIS REOPENED RIGHT AWAY, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE BASED ON SOME FUTURE PROMISE TO NEGOTIATE WHEN WE'VE SEEN A LACK OF TRUST, THE LACK OF FOLLOW THROUGH.

>> AND THE IRONY BEING ACCORDING TO THE ANALYSIS OF THE HEALTH NEWS, THE MAJORITY OF BUYERS OF THESE POLICIES UNDER THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT ARE ACTUALLY IN REPUBLICAN STATES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THEY'RE ALL FROM STATES THAT DIDN'T EXPAND MEDICAID.

WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THE TRILLION DOLLAR HIT THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN TO MEDICAID, WHICH AGAIN, OUR REPUBLICAN FRIENDS DIDN'T KICK IN UNTIL LAST YEAR'S MIDTERM ELECTIONS WERE ABOUT 11 MILLION ADDITIONAL.

CONVERSATIONS.

I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE NO SORT OF DISCUSSIONS GOING ON, BUT I ASSUME YOU HAVE SIDE CONVERSATIONS.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE YOU'VE KNOWN FOR YEARS.

THIS IS YOUR THIRD TERM.

YOU'VE SERVED WITH PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

ANY PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE GOING ON?

>> I'VE BEEN A PART OF EVERY BIPARTISAN GROUP IN THE LAST DECADE.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE GREAT REPUBLICAN FRIENDS WHO I KNOW THEY WANT TO GET THIS RESOLVED.

BUT IN TODAY'S WASHINGTON, NO REPUBLICAN SENATOR ARE CONGRESSMEN WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE OR TWO WILL GO AGAINST THE PRESIDENT.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO MOVE IN ANY SERIOUS WAY UNLESS THE PRESIDENT SAYS SO.

THE IDEA IN THE CLASSIC WAY, THE SENATE WOULD WORK THEIR WAY WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS COMING TO A CONCLUSION.

THAT'S NOT THE REALITY OF THE WAY WE WOULD LIVE IN TODAY.

THEY CONTROL EVERY ACTION OF THE REPUBLICAN SENATE.

THERE IS NO INDEPENDENT ACTORS.

ACTORS.

NO MATTER WHAT PLACE IS TAKING PLACE OR THEIR INVOLVEMENT, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD GET THIS INVOLVED.

>> I GUESS I'M CURIOUS AND HERE IS WHAT I'M ASKING YOU TO SPECULATE.

HE'S VERY ATTENTIVE TO WHO HE PROCEEDS AS BEING A PART OF HIS CONSTITUENCY, HIS BASE AS THEY WERE.

SO I GUESS THE QUESTION BECOMES WHY WOULD HE BE WILLING TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO GO WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE OR SEE THEM RISE AS IT IS PROJECTED THEY WILL.

DO YOU HAVE A THEORY ABOUT THAT?

>> I ONLY KNOW WHAT WAS REPORTED FROM THE ONE MEETING WHERE THEY MET WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

IT SEEMS AT THAT POINT, THE PRESIDENT WAS NOT AWARE OF HOW DRAMATIC THIS CLIFF WOULD BE IN THE END OF OCTOBER.

I THINK HE PROBABLY HAS TO BE MORE INFORMED NOW, BUT HE'S OBVIOUSLY BEEN FOCUSED ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND GAZA.

AND HERE AT HOME, THEY WON'T MAKE AMERICA GREAT IF WE DESTROY AN ALREADY CHALLENGED HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

BUT SO FAR, THAT HASN'T COME TO PASS.

I MEAN, IF THE PRESIDENT SAT DOWN AND THEY HAD TWO OR THREE SESSIONS AND DIDN'T GET TO A DEAL, THEN THEY WOULD BE STRENGTHENED.

NOT ABOUT OPENING UP THE NEGOTIATIONS.

THE ASK THAT'S BEING MADE, WHAT STOOD OUT IN THE ROOM, ISN'T THAT A REASONABLE APPROACH?

AREN'T YOU THE WORLD'S BEST DEAL MAKER?

AND HIS REFUSAL TO DO SO.

I AGREE WITH YOU.

I DON'T GET IT.

>> THE REPUBLICANS, UP TO INCLUDING THE VICE PRESIDENT HAVE BEEN ARGUING WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE REALLY AFTER IS TO SUBSIDIZE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

WHAT ARE THE FACTS OF THAT?

>> LET ME FINISH.

THAT IS WRONG.

I WOULD HOPE THE VICE PRESIDENT WOULD KNOW THE LAW.

I KNOW HE DIDN'T SPEND MUCH TIME IN THE SENATE.

THE LAW PROHIBITS ANY FEDERAL DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING IN MEDICAID, THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, IN ANY OTHER PROGRAM TO UNDOCUMENT PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.

HE SHOULD KNOW IT.

TO STATE OTHERWISE IS A LIE.

IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE 24 MILLION AMERICANS WHO ARE ABOUT TO LOSE THEIR HEALTHCARE COVERAGE.

>> AND THE BASIS OF THAT IS WHAT?

EMERGENCY ROOMS, AS YOU JUST POINTED OUT HAVE TO TREAT ALL?

IS THAT THE LOGIC OF THAT?

>> THAT IS A LAW THAT EVEN IF WE DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET YOU BLEED OUT ON THE FLOOR IN THE I THINK THAT'S THE LAW OF MOST CIVILIZED NATIONS.

THE IRONY HERE IS IF YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THESE 24 MILLION AMERICANS AND DRIVE THEM OUT OF THE SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT IT TO HAVE THEM SHOW UP AT THE EMERGENCY ROOM.

ALL YOU'RE DOING IS PUTTING ADDITIONAL BURDEN.

THAT'S ALSO GOING TO DRIVE UP HEALTHCARE COST FOR THE OTHER AMERICANS WHO GOT TRADITIONAL PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE BECAUSE THAT, FOR THE MOST PART, COMES IN WHAT'S CALLED UNCOMPENSATED CARE.

THE HOSPITAL HAS TO EAT IT.

THAT MEANS IT WILL DRIVE UP RATES FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.

SOME OF THIS IS JUST PLAIN MATH 101.

AND THE FACT THE VICE PRESIDENT IS, YOU KNOW, MAKING THIS BASELESS FALSE ARGUMENT, THEY ASSUMED FOR A WHILE THERE'S, YOU KNOW, HUGE AMOUNTS OF -- PRESUMPTION IS ALL OF THESE PROGRAMS MUST BE RIDDLED WITH CRAFT, EVEN IN STATES THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY REPUBLICANS, IF SOMEHOW NON-AMERICANS ARE GETTING THIS ASSISTANCE.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE.

IT WOULD BE OBVIOUSLY A GREAT BLACK EYE FOR THOSE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED STATES, WHERE THE DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE WHO ARE BUYING THROUGH THE MARKETPLACES.

BUT THE LAW IS 100% EXPLICITLY CLEAR.

AGAIN, I AM DISAPPOINTED THE VICE PRESIDENT DOESN'T KNOW THE LAW OF THE COUNTRY.

>> DO YOU SEE ANY WAY FORWARD?

I UNDERSTAND YOU SPECIFICALLY ON JUST GETTING TO AN AGREEMENT YOUR ARGUMENT IS --OTHER COLLEAGUES ARE ON THE DARKER SIDE THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS TO GET INVOLVED, GET IN THE ROOM, AND SORT OF WORK IT OUT?

>> AND LET ME QUICKLY ADD.

I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS ANY REPUBLICAN SENATOR THAT I TALKED TO WHO HASN'T PRIVATELY SAID TO ME.

MARK, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO GET TRUMP IN THIS.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING WITHOUT TRUMP'S APPROVAL.

>> BUT SUBSTANTIVELY, DO YOU SEE A WAY FORWARD THAT YOU COULD SUPPORT?

>> YES, YES.

>> THERE ARE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT.

THEY WOULD SAY THE SUBSIDIES ARE TOO EXPENSIVE.

I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE REPUBLICAN SENATORS AND SOME OF THEM ARE CONSISTENT.

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT?

>> YES.

I SEE THE PATH FORWARD SUBSTANTIVELY THAT WILL AVOID THE CLIFF, AND IF THERE ARE REFORMS THAT WILL NEED TO BE PUT IN PLACE, PUT US ON THE PATH TO GET THOSE REFORMS.

AVOID THE IMMEDIATE CLIFF OF NOVEMBER.

PUT REFORMS IN PLACE, AND FRANKLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE OFFERED SEMI-REPUBLICAN FRIENDS, BECAUSE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S TARIFFS.

MANY OF OUR FARMING COMMUNITY, PARTICULARLY IN THE MIDWEST, SOME OF THOSE REPUBLICANS ARE GETTING CREAMED BECAUSE CHINA IS IT NO LONGER BUYING SOYBEANS.

WE'RE GOING TO NEED A $10, $15, $20 BILLION PACKAGE FOR THE AGRICULTURE COMMUNITY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHY THAT ISN'T INTRODUCED IN THIS CONVERSATION, I'M NOT SURE WHY EITHER.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO GET THIS DONE.

I BELIEVE IT WILL GET DONE.

THE PRESIDENT WILL COME BACK AND SAY OH, I FORGOT.

WE NEED ANOTHER BUCKET OF MONEY.

WHY WE WOULDN'T GO AHEAD AND PUT THAT INTO THE CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW AND GET IT ALL RESOLVED AND ACTUALLY SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

FOR THAT MATTER, THE REST OF THE WORLD, WE COULD STILL FUNCTION WITH THE APPROPRIATE CHECKS AND BALANCES.

THAT WOULD BE A WIN FOR EVERYONE.

I THINK INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT.

>> SENATOR MARK WARNER, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> AND FINALLY, TALKING ABOUT LEADERSHIP.

TODAY, THOUSANDS OF MOURNERS HAVE BEEN POURING IN TO KENYA'S CAPITAL TO PAY RESPECTS TO THE COUNTRY'S FORMER PRIME MINISTER.

SO MANY PEOPLE TURNED OUT AT THE AIRPORT TO WELCOME HIM AND HIS BUDDY HOME THAT IT CAUSED A TEMPORARY HALT IN FLIGHTS.

THE OUTPOURING OF GRIEF AND CELEBRATION IS TESTAMENT TO THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF THE VETERAN OPERATION LEADER WHO DIED ON WEDNESDAY OF A HEART ATTACK AT THE AGE OF 80, WHILE TRAVELING IN INDIA.

THEY RAN NO LESS THAN FIVE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS AND HE WAS A KEY FIGURE IN AFRICAN POLITICS FOR DECADES.

THE CURRENT LEADER, WILLIAM CALLED HIM A BEACON OF COURAGE AND THE FATHER OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> OUR FREEDOM FIGHTER, A TIRELESS WARRIOR OF GOOD GOVERNANCE.

THE NAME WILL FOREVER BE ETCHED IN THE STORY OF OUR REPUBLIC.

A STORY OF STRUGGLE, SACRIFICE, COURAGE.

RULE OF LAW, HOPE, AND OF PURSUIT FOR EXCELLENCE.

HE DEDICATED HIS LIFE TO THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE, EQUITY, AND FREEDOM.

>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.